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מי שמכיר ומי שלא, הטריאתלט בחתימה שלי זה כריס מקורמק, אין צורך לפרט עליו מי שרוצה שיגגל, הוא אלוף עולם פעמיים בטריאתלון ארוך (איש ברזל) ובעיניי ספורטאי מדהים, מכל הבחינות.
העניין הוא, שבפייסבוק הוא שם סטטוס על ההשעייה של פרטה שנתפס על EPO, וכמובן שהיו הרבה תגובות, יש לעמוד שלו 51 אלף לייקים. אחת מהתגובות הייתה שלי, ומתוך כל התגובות שיש, הוא הגיב לי. הגבתי שוב, והוא הגיב לי שוב, ככה שרשרנו דיי הרבה. תכלס, כתבתי את הדברים מהפלאפון תוך כדי העבודה ושמתי לב שיצאתי קצת דביל בחלק מהדברים שאמרתי, אבל באופן חד משמעי, הוא גרם לי לתהות לגביי השימוש בחומרים בטריאתלון, ודיי שכנע אותי שהוא מזערי מאוד. לגביי אופניים הוא גם שכנע אותי, אבל אחרי שיחה מאוד ארוכה עם חבר שהיה רוכב עילית בינלאומי הבנתי איך הדברים עובדים טוב יותר, ולא השתכנעתי.
הדעה ההתחלתית שלי היא שבכל הענפים יש שימוש רחב בחומרים כאלה ואחרים, במיוחד ברמות הכי גבוהות. אבל אחרי ששמעתי את מה שהוא אומר, אני מסכים איתו. הירידה לפרטים, מהצד שלו, מתבצעת בחלק מאוחר של השרשור. להלן השרשור (Macca זה כריס מקורמק, זה הכינוי שלו ושם העמותה שלו, LA זה לאנס ארמסטרונג):
אני:
lol, quite pathetic you all think they're all clean. I'm a big fan of macca, and other elite triathletes, but don't think that at the podium there's more than one clean athlete. You just need google in order to know how easy it is to use PED's without getting caught, and when glory addicted people (which isn't a bad thing - that's what made athletes go so far with abillities) have this temptation, most of them use. It doesen't say that without unbeliveable talent, hard work and pure suffer you can win the world championship, of course. But just google for GH, insulin, igf-1 and EPO articles on steroid forums, you'll find what you're looking for.
כריס מקורמק:
Tal Ephrat you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. Great to have an opinion, but seriously mate, you are so far from the facts that it is crazy. I can tell you, I read many peoples post on thier beliefs on PED in triathlon and their belief that Triathletes do not get tested. You have no idea. The Lance Armstrong saga has shown what it takes for an athlete to cheat, but even he was caught and brought down. Just because you can get a drug, doesn't mean you can get away with taking it. Seriously mate, your ignorant to what your talking about, and I talk for all the clean athletes out their (and I think they out weigh the dirty ones) that the cheats get caught and we are happy about it. I also think some athletes get pinged for stupid things that are not performance enhancing nor where they taken to improve a performance, but they are in foods and other spots. This being said, they are responsible and do their time. Doping is a cancer in sport, but as a clean athlete who trains and knows only clean athletes, I get offended when innuendo and assumption of what it takes to win world titles is tarnished with "they are all doing it." THAT is BULLSHIT. We are not all doing it, and I have won 4 World titles and endless races, CLEAN. And most of the races I race, I believe are CLEAN. We know the ones who cheat and we wait and hope they get pinged, and ALL the time they do. Lance Armstrong had to go, and as a clean athlete who always knew, I was happy to see that even the biggest and best athletes are not immune.
אני:
MACCA, you are amazing athlete and I'm not in that page for other reason except admiring you. Your comment is also another thing I'm impressed by, and for the ones who never were busy with PED's it looks like a win. But, facts are: 1. It's impossible to test for GH use, and this substance accelerate recovery. 2. Insulin also, but it's not related directly to triathlon. 3. Tests doesen't guarentee that EPO use will be found or self blood insertion. Also it's possible to manipulate the levels in ~10 mins before/after the race. 4. LA never tested positive, for example, but it doesen't say a lot because then there weren't real EPO tests. 5. Drugs alone never won and will never win world titles without the talent and dedication.
בינתיים, תגובה נוספת שלי, למישהו אחר, שהציע לתבוע ספורטאים שנתפסו על גרימת סבל לאחרים:
Will Velazquez, it sounds nice, but only to those who have 0% experience with it. The society demand NBA players who slam from the penalty, this is 100% business, and to use PED's for it is the same as manipulating taxes. And it's exactly like that, to think that more than 20% of the world champs now days never doped is the same as thinking that more than 20% of the multi-billionaire business men never manipulated taxes.
These are ELITE levels - at sports it's the same as it is in business, or anything else.
100% of the elite athletes CONSIDERED doping, and faced that dillema. I don't, and never will say that all of them doped, and until someone test positive I think it's stupid to blame him, but... I'm realistic, and it's not because I'm passimist. It's because I'm familiar with that issue. As I already said - GH, Insulin, IGF-1, Testosterone, EPO and self blood insertions are very possible options to use without getting caught, when GH is not possible to test for, anyway. So you don't have to be even smart. It's an expensive option, but money isn't the case here.
I really recommend everyone to search in YouTube for "Dave Tate on human potential", an interesting interview with maybe the best Powerlifting coach ever existed.
Belive whatever you'd like to, and keep consuming it because it's awesome to see people at the IM finish line earlier than 8 hours, but consider the option that most of them doped, and at the same time: never think they didn't suffer at the most pure expression of the word, even if they doped.
כריס מקורמק:
Tal you seriously are disillusioned mate. I guess you can blame doping on any success because that justifies in your head why you cant do it, and THEY can. Same as the billionaire business man. They only did it because they cheated taxes. I know all the sub 8hr Ironman group and I am pretty sure they are all clean. Only one guy was ever suspect. I just hate that attitude that they are all doing it and that any success was doping related. You can view history within a sport and see where the lines lie and what is considered suspect. Cycling curves jumped massively after the advent and discovery of EPO. Greg Lemond does an awesome interview on this very fact on Competitor Radio a few years ago. Triathlon improvement curve has been steady, and I can tell you mate breaking 8 hours is a tough thing but I think a time close to 7:30 is well and truly possible by athletes today who are clean. I am in this world. I am the biggest anti doper in the World, yet I talk for most of the professional triathletes I know, our sport is VERY clean in relation to others and what we are doing is not exceptional.
אני:
Chris I never said that world titles are won by drugs only! I manipulated taxes, and I'm not a billionaire, the same as that I used Ephedrine (not related to sports) and I never reached level which is close to being able to run more than 10km in your ironman pace. I'm not a world champion because I'm not good enough, and you are because you are good enough. Drugs are a relevant factor, but it's still only a factor. Training, nutrition, talent and skills are far more important. I have no idea how triathlon is a clean sport compared to others, but it's possible that this sport is in good condition. Times can't tell about doping or not, and neither I or anyone can proof most of the elite athletes' doping - I can only proof that it's easy to use without getting caught, and that there's BIG INTEREST. I belive you that you're clean, and it has nothing to do with the general topic.
By the way, you're awesome that you're commenting here. It's far from obvious. Really... thank you
בינתיים, תגובה נוספת שלי למישהו שחפר לי בפייסבוק ואמר שעשיתי דברים מאוד מרשימים אבל שאני לא בראש פתוח ושכריס יותר מנוסה ומעורה בתחום ממני ולכן אני צריך להקשיב לו (אד פופולום):
Peter. First of all, thanks. Second, I'm far from the thought that I know everything. Again, all I can prove is that PED's are something you can use quite easily without getting caught, and that there is a big interest to do so. I don't take anything from macca, and don't try to teach him anything about triathlon. But all your arguments are nothing more than Ad Populum or Ad Hominem. I can be wrong, and if I am - it's very easy to convince me. You just need the right arguments, which you and your friends fail to give - Ad Populum and/or Ad Huminem are not the right ones.
And, by the way, I gave thoughts to his comments, and believed that athletes who pass the tests are clean - but unfortunately after I learned a thing or two about PED's, the facts gave me no other choice, than to be very suspicious. Not like you guys, I don't think that someone who used PED's is a bad guy. It's not the ideal situation - but the most majority of the top athletes, whatever sport it is, are using substances. Diferrent substances, diferrent dosages, diferrent levels. It's a relevant factor, but in most cases, the more talented and genetic-gifted, who worked freakly hard and suffered in the most pure description of the word - wins. even if he's clean. USUALLY.
I hope you don't take that comment personally, it's not against you, but I'll be really happy to hear arguments other than Ad Populum and/or Ad Huminem.
Greetz,
Tal
כריס מקורמק:
Tal, they have had a test for HGH for 2 years now. So you stand corrected. It is easy to say all this about doping, but all these guys got caught. Lance Armstrong stood behind Livestrong, money and the Cancer group to keep himself from being pinged, but he still got caught. The professional Triathletes u r talking about simply do not have the resources available to them to run a sophisticated doping program that would see them not get caught. This is why these guys get caught. Drug testing is a great thing and it catches people. It deters people and is better than nothing. I just hate that athletes like Lance and the cycling culture corrupt people perception of our sport. U just need to view the performances of triathletes in relation to the single disciplines and the performance curve in relation to this. We are WAY off what the limits are. A 2:40 marathon when the world record is 2:04. Alastair Brownlee running 29 off the bike to win the Olympics. The boys run 28:30 at the back end of a marathon. It's possible. It's a great argument but I sit here after 25 years racing running and triathlon and I am still here. If you know anything about sports science u can simply look at what people are doing and assess this against standard numbers. The cycling world had been ridiculous for years. 6.8 watts per kg. Its bullshit. No one could pick on lance because he was bigger than the sport and welded so much power that within our industry you had to smile and pay homage. I wanted to race him because in Triathlon whether he doped or not I think I could beat him. I offered him 1.5million dollars thanks to the Australian government to race me. He declined. Ask Lance! I offered him this 2 times prior to his conviction. He is toxic now and I am glad this has all come around. He ruined the lives of many cyclists I know who rode clean. Good riddance to him and know whether he doped or not (and I think he was cheating in his last 2 triathlons - improvement was to big after his trip to Spain- I think he said he got his nutrition right ;)
) I still believe I would have kicked his ass and I would have enjoyed doing it.
אני:
Sorry for the late reply, I hope that war going on here is a good excuse 😃
So, Chris.
You convinced me. The argument that it's very difficult in terms of money and support (when we're talking about EPO and blood insertions), convinced me that the doped endurance athletes are not the majority.
So, now I have diferrent problem. If I get you right, you say that the cycling is not that clean. But, the most majority of the cyclists also doesen't get caught. So, how is it possible that cyclist do have the money and support to dope the same substances (EPO, blood insertions) and triathletes doesen't?
Or, maybe I understood you wrong, and you were talking only about lance... which, actually, never tested positive. Also in these last 2 triathlons you mentioned. So, basically, if he doped in these two, which is legit possible option, you or craig or anyone else who is now in good conditions (in the money issue) could do it too.
So, my 2 questions to you are,
1. How is it possible that the cycling world is very doped, and the triathlon isn't? the same substances needed, the same tests are applied, and "upcoming" cyclists / triathletes who haven't won big races and championships, are quite familiar in the financical point of view. So what am I missing?
2. Maybe at the beginning, when you're not a world champion, you don't have the money to do that, but you, for example, do have the money to do that. So why would I think that you / Craig / Brownlee (only as examples) aren't doped, when you kind of admit that with enough resources, it's possible to dope and not get caught?
Thank you VERY MUCH for the comments. Again, it's not obvious at all!
כריס מקורמק:
Tal, I wont continue because you obviously don't understand sport science. Lance Armstrong was busted 3 times mate. He paid his way out. Read the USADA reports. So dont tell me he never got caught. He did. Every single cyclist you are talking about has been caught. Give me a cyclist who has not? They all got pinged mate. You are speculating pal. You read a book, and you call it the norm! You simply don't have a clue what your talking about. You have no idea how the system works, the changes that have been implemented in testing since the old times. Even Blood doping is able to be tested for mate. They run a blood passport now Tal. You are ignorant of the real life logistics behind doping. Trust me, I have been in this sport a very long time and I have seen many things. Drug testing is a great thing. WADA do an amazing job. Yes people cheat, but your assumption that it is easy to get away with is just flat out ignorant. Every single major player has been taken down. Lance Armstrong was the last. This very fact that testing has become better, has made it even harder and more expensive to cheat. You risk a lot to put your faith in a doctor because "you pay them well." Yes people cheat! Yes people take drugs in sport. But you are absolutely wrong by jumping to conclusions and making assumptions that all endurance athletes cheat. It is an excuse for your own limitations. Every person who cant do something blames drugs. Makes you sleep better at night, as you can give yourself a reason as to why "they can do it, and you can't." Just do yourself a favour, pick up a book on basic human performance. Timothy Noakes writes some exceptional pieces on Running and these correlate very well into cycling. Study the performance curves of athletes and map these over a long period of time, and get a basic understanding on what the curve looks like. When you do, you can see outliers. cycling since 1994 has had a huge series of outliers and these just kept growing to establish a new norm in athletic power and performance. It just did not correlate. Isn't it funny now that with the last two TDF the power numbers are way down on both average and max. Ever wondered why? Wouldn't be that drug testing is working and the sport is getting cleaner? Despite what you think, most athletes dont even think of cheating and the ones who do, are the few. I dont know why I felt the need to argue my point with you. I seriously dont give a shit what you think! Its just a shame that you can make such bold statements, but you have none of the foundation nor the knowledge to back it up. You read a book and thats it. I read the book about Steve Jobs and how he did certain things to become a billionaire. It wasn't an instruction manual nor was it a snap shot of what actually is. It was a point of view. It was his and it worked for him. It has no relevance on the real world. I live in this world you are talking about, and you have no relevance or understanding in ours. Put simply, Your an ignorant observer.
אשמח לשמוע את דעתכם, אם אפשר המנומקת. בנוסף, אשמח שתעירו לי על דברים שאמרתי, ותתקנו אם יש צורך. בצורה מנומקת כמובן.
אני השתכנעתי שהטריאתלון יחסית נקי, ושרוב הטופ טבעיים, אבל אני יותר מאשמח לשמוע דעות לכאן או לכאן. זה לא תלוש מהמציאות להגיד ש"נפלתי בפח".
מקווה שהתעניינתם (בכל זאת, דיון עם כזה בן אדם לא יוצא לי לקיים כל יום, בטח שלא בכזאת פתיחות כמו שהוא הציג), ושיתפתח כאן דיון מעניין.
דעתכם?
אגב, סרטון מדהים על הזכייה שלו באליפות העולם ב2010, ככל הנראה הקרב הכי פסיכי שהיה איי פעם... תהנו
מי שמכיר ומי שלא, הטריאתלט בחתימה שלי זה כריס מקורמק, אין צורך לפרט עליו מי שרוצה שיגגל, הוא אלוף עולם פעמיים בטריאתלון ארוך (איש ברזל) ובעיניי ספורטאי מדהים, מכל הבחינות.
העניין הוא, שבפייסבוק הוא שם סטטוס על ההשעייה של פרטה שנתפס על EPO, וכמובן שהיו הרבה תגובות, יש לעמוד שלו 51 אלף לייקים. אחת מהתגובות הייתה שלי, ומתוך כל התגובות שיש, הוא הגיב לי. הגבתי שוב, והוא הגיב לי שוב, ככה שרשרנו דיי הרבה. תכלס, כתבתי את הדברים מהפלאפון תוך כדי העבודה ושמתי לב שיצאתי קצת דביל בחלק מהדברים שאמרתי, אבל באופן חד משמעי, הוא גרם לי לתהות לגביי השימוש בחומרים בטריאתלון, ודיי שכנע אותי שהוא מזערי מאוד. לגביי אופניים הוא גם שכנע אותי, אבל אחרי שיחה מאוד ארוכה עם חבר שהיה רוכב עילית בינלאומי הבנתי איך הדברים עובדים טוב יותר, ולא השתכנעתי.
הדעה ההתחלתית שלי היא שבכל הענפים יש שימוש רחב בחומרים כאלה ואחרים, במיוחד ברמות הכי גבוהות. אבל אחרי ששמעתי את מה שהוא אומר, אני מסכים איתו. הירידה לפרטים, מהצד שלו, מתבצעת בחלק מאוחר של השרשור. להלן השרשור (Macca זה כריס מקורמק, זה הכינוי שלו ושם העמותה שלו, LA זה לאנס ארמסטרונג):
אני:
lol, quite pathetic you all think they're all clean. I'm a big fan of macca, and other elite triathletes, but don't think that at the podium there's more than one clean athlete. You just need google in order to know how easy it is to use PED's without getting caught, and when glory addicted people (which isn't a bad thing - that's what made athletes go so far with abillities) have this temptation, most of them use. It doesen't say that without unbeliveable talent, hard work and pure suffer you can win the world championship, of course. But just google for GH, insulin, igf-1 and EPO articles on steroid forums, you'll find what you're looking for.
כריס מקורמק:
Tal Ephrat you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. Great to have an opinion, but seriously mate, you are so far from the facts that it is crazy. I can tell you, I read many peoples post on thier beliefs on PED in triathlon and their belief that Triathletes do not get tested. You have no idea. The Lance Armstrong saga has shown what it takes for an athlete to cheat, but even he was caught and brought down. Just because you can get a drug, doesn't mean you can get away with taking it. Seriously mate, your ignorant to what your talking about, and I talk for all the clean athletes out their (and I think they out weigh the dirty ones) that the cheats get caught and we are happy about it. I also think some athletes get pinged for stupid things that are not performance enhancing nor where they taken to improve a performance, but they are in foods and other spots. This being said, they are responsible and do their time. Doping is a cancer in sport, but as a clean athlete who trains and knows only clean athletes, I get offended when innuendo and assumption of what it takes to win world titles is tarnished with "they are all doing it." THAT is BULLSHIT. We are not all doing it, and I have won 4 World titles and endless races, CLEAN. And most of the races I race, I believe are CLEAN. We know the ones who cheat and we wait and hope they get pinged, and ALL the time they do. Lance Armstrong had to go, and as a clean athlete who always knew, I was happy to see that even the biggest and best athletes are not immune.
אני:
MACCA, you are amazing athlete and I'm not in that page for other reason except admiring you. Your comment is also another thing I'm impressed by, and for the ones who never were busy with PED's it looks like a win. But, facts are: 1. It's impossible to test for GH use, and this substance accelerate recovery. 2. Insulin also, but it's not related directly to triathlon. 3. Tests doesen't guarentee that EPO use will be found or self blood insertion. Also it's possible to manipulate the levels in ~10 mins before/after the race. 4. LA never tested positive, for example, but it doesen't say a lot because then there weren't real EPO tests. 5. Drugs alone never won and will never win world titles without the talent and dedication.
בינתיים, תגובה נוספת שלי, למישהו אחר, שהציע לתבוע ספורטאים שנתפסו על גרימת סבל לאחרים:
Will Velazquez, it sounds nice, but only to those who have 0% experience with it. The society demand NBA players who slam from the penalty, this is 100% business, and to use PED's for it is the same as manipulating taxes. And it's exactly like that, to think that more than 20% of the world champs now days never doped is the same as thinking that more than 20% of the multi-billionaire business men never manipulated taxes.
These are ELITE levels - at sports it's the same as it is in business, or anything else.
100% of the elite athletes CONSIDERED doping, and faced that dillema. I don't, and never will say that all of them doped, and until someone test positive I think it's stupid to blame him, but... I'm realistic, and it's not because I'm passimist. It's because I'm familiar with that issue. As I already said - GH, Insulin, IGF-1, Testosterone, EPO and self blood insertions are very possible options to use without getting caught, when GH is not possible to test for, anyway. So you don't have to be even smart. It's an expensive option, but money isn't the case here.
I really recommend everyone to search in YouTube for "Dave Tate on human potential", an interesting interview with maybe the best Powerlifting coach ever existed.
Belive whatever you'd like to, and keep consuming it because it's awesome to see people at the IM finish line earlier than 8 hours, but consider the option that most of them doped, and at the same time: never think they didn't suffer at the most pure expression of the word, even if they doped.
כריס מקורמק:
Tal you seriously are disillusioned mate. I guess you can blame doping on any success because that justifies in your head why you cant do it, and THEY can. Same as the billionaire business man. They only did it because they cheated taxes. I know all the sub 8hr Ironman group and I am pretty sure they are all clean. Only one guy was ever suspect. I just hate that attitude that they are all doing it and that any success was doping related. You can view history within a sport and see where the lines lie and what is considered suspect. Cycling curves jumped massively after the advent and discovery of EPO. Greg Lemond does an awesome interview on this very fact on Competitor Radio a few years ago. Triathlon improvement curve has been steady, and I can tell you mate breaking 8 hours is a tough thing but I think a time close to 7:30 is well and truly possible by athletes today who are clean. I am in this world. I am the biggest anti doper in the World, yet I talk for most of the professional triathletes I know, our sport is VERY clean in relation to others and what we are doing is not exceptional.
אני:
Chris I never said that world titles are won by drugs only! I manipulated taxes, and I'm not a billionaire, the same as that I used Ephedrine (not related to sports) and I never reached level which is close to being able to run more than 10km in your ironman pace. I'm not a world champion because I'm not good enough, and you are because you are good enough. Drugs are a relevant factor, but it's still only a factor. Training, nutrition, talent and skills are far more important. I have no idea how triathlon is a clean sport compared to others, but it's possible that this sport is in good condition. Times can't tell about doping or not, and neither I or anyone can proof most of the elite athletes' doping - I can only proof that it's easy to use without getting caught, and that there's BIG INTEREST. I belive you that you're clean, and it has nothing to do with the general topic.
By the way, you're awesome that you're commenting here. It's far from obvious. Really... thank you
בינתיים, תגובה נוספת שלי למישהו שחפר לי בפייסבוק ואמר שעשיתי דברים מאוד מרשימים אבל שאני לא בראש פתוח ושכריס יותר מנוסה ומעורה בתחום ממני ולכן אני צריך להקשיב לו (אד פופולום):
Peter. First of all, thanks. Second, I'm far from the thought that I know everything. Again, all I can prove is that PED's are something you can use quite easily without getting caught, and that there is a big interest to do so. I don't take anything from macca, and don't try to teach him anything about triathlon. But all your arguments are nothing more than Ad Populum or Ad Hominem. I can be wrong, and if I am - it's very easy to convince me. You just need the right arguments, which you and your friends fail to give - Ad Populum and/or Ad Huminem are not the right ones.
And, by the way, I gave thoughts to his comments, and believed that athletes who pass the tests are clean - but unfortunately after I learned a thing or two about PED's, the facts gave me no other choice, than to be very suspicious. Not like you guys, I don't think that someone who used PED's is a bad guy. It's not the ideal situation - but the most majority of the top athletes, whatever sport it is, are using substances. Diferrent substances, diferrent dosages, diferrent levels. It's a relevant factor, but in most cases, the more talented and genetic-gifted, who worked freakly hard and suffered in the most pure description of the word - wins. even if he's clean. USUALLY.
I hope you don't take that comment personally, it's not against you, but I'll be really happy to hear arguments other than Ad Populum and/or Ad Huminem.
Greetz,
Tal
כריס מקורמק:
Tal, they have had a test for HGH for 2 years now. So you stand corrected. It is easy to say all this about doping, but all these guys got caught. Lance Armstrong stood behind Livestrong, money and the Cancer group to keep himself from being pinged, but he still got caught. The professional Triathletes u r talking about simply do not have the resources available to them to run a sophisticated doping program that would see them not get caught. This is why these guys get caught. Drug testing is a great thing and it catches people. It deters people and is better than nothing. I just hate that athletes like Lance and the cycling culture corrupt people perception of our sport. U just need to view the performances of triathletes in relation to the single disciplines and the performance curve in relation to this. We are WAY off what the limits are. A 2:40 marathon when the world record is 2:04. Alastair Brownlee running 29 off the bike to win the Olympics. The boys run 28:30 at the back end of a marathon. It's possible. It's a great argument but I sit here after 25 years racing running and triathlon and I am still here. If you know anything about sports science u can simply look at what people are doing and assess this against standard numbers. The cycling world had been ridiculous for years. 6.8 watts per kg. Its bullshit. No one could pick on lance because he was bigger than the sport and welded so much power that within our industry you had to smile and pay homage. I wanted to race him because in Triathlon whether he doped or not I think I could beat him. I offered him 1.5million dollars thanks to the Australian government to race me. He declined. Ask Lance! I offered him this 2 times prior to his conviction. He is toxic now and I am glad this has all come around. He ruined the lives of many cyclists I know who rode clean. Good riddance to him and know whether he doped or not (and I think he was cheating in his last 2 triathlons - improvement was to big after his trip to Spain- I think he said he got his nutrition right ;)
אני:
Sorry for the late reply, I hope that war going on here is a good excuse 😃
So, Chris.
You convinced me. The argument that it's very difficult in terms of money and support (when we're talking about EPO and blood insertions), convinced me that the doped endurance athletes are not the majority.
So, now I have diferrent problem. If I get you right, you say that the cycling is not that clean. But, the most majority of the cyclists also doesen't get caught. So, how is it possible that cyclist do have the money and support to dope the same substances (EPO, blood insertions) and triathletes doesen't?
Or, maybe I understood you wrong, and you were talking only about lance... which, actually, never tested positive. Also in these last 2 triathlons you mentioned. So, basically, if he doped in these two, which is legit possible option, you or craig or anyone else who is now in good conditions (in the money issue) could do it too.
So, my 2 questions to you are,
1. How is it possible that the cycling world is very doped, and the triathlon isn't? the same substances needed, the same tests are applied, and "upcoming" cyclists / triathletes who haven't won big races and championships, are quite familiar in the financical point of view. So what am I missing?
2. Maybe at the beginning, when you're not a world champion, you don't have the money to do that, but you, for example, do have the money to do that. So why would I think that you / Craig / Brownlee (only as examples) aren't doped, when you kind of admit that with enough resources, it's possible to dope and not get caught?
Thank you VERY MUCH for the comments. Again, it's not obvious at all!
כריס מקורמק:
Tal, I wont continue because you obviously don't understand sport science. Lance Armstrong was busted 3 times mate. He paid his way out. Read the USADA reports. So dont tell me he never got caught. He did. Every single cyclist you are talking about has been caught. Give me a cyclist who has not? They all got pinged mate. You are speculating pal. You read a book, and you call it the norm! You simply don't have a clue what your talking about. You have no idea how the system works, the changes that have been implemented in testing since the old times. Even Blood doping is able to be tested for mate. They run a blood passport now Tal. You are ignorant of the real life logistics behind doping. Trust me, I have been in this sport a very long time and I have seen many things. Drug testing is a great thing. WADA do an amazing job. Yes people cheat, but your assumption that it is easy to get away with is just flat out ignorant. Every single major player has been taken down. Lance Armstrong was the last. This very fact that testing has become better, has made it even harder and more expensive to cheat. You risk a lot to put your faith in a doctor because "you pay them well." Yes people cheat! Yes people take drugs in sport. But you are absolutely wrong by jumping to conclusions and making assumptions that all endurance athletes cheat. It is an excuse for your own limitations. Every person who cant do something blames drugs. Makes you sleep better at night, as you can give yourself a reason as to why "they can do it, and you can't." Just do yourself a favour, pick up a book on basic human performance. Timothy Noakes writes some exceptional pieces on Running and these correlate very well into cycling. Study the performance curves of athletes and map these over a long period of time, and get a basic understanding on what the curve looks like. When you do, you can see outliers. cycling since 1994 has had a huge series of outliers and these just kept growing to establish a new norm in athletic power and performance. It just did not correlate. Isn't it funny now that with the last two TDF the power numbers are way down on both average and max. Ever wondered why? Wouldn't be that drug testing is working and the sport is getting cleaner? Despite what you think, most athletes dont even think of cheating and the ones who do, are the few. I dont know why I felt the need to argue my point with you. I seriously dont give a shit what you think! Its just a shame that you can make such bold statements, but you have none of the foundation nor the knowledge to back it up. You read a book and thats it. I read the book about Steve Jobs and how he did certain things to become a billionaire. It wasn't an instruction manual nor was it a snap shot of what actually is. It was a point of view. It was his and it worked for him. It has no relevance on the real world. I live in this world you are talking about, and you have no relevance or understanding in ours. Put simply, Your an ignorant observer.
אשמח לשמוע את דעתכם, אם אפשר המנומקת. בנוסף, אשמח שתעירו לי על דברים שאמרתי, ותתקנו אם יש צורך. בצורה מנומקת כמובן.
אני השתכנעתי שהטריאתלון יחסית נקי, ושרוב הטופ טבעיים, אבל אני יותר מאשמח לשמוע דעות לכאן או לכאן. זה לא תלוש מהמציאות להגיד ש"נפלתי בפח".
מקווה שהתעניינתם (בכל זאת, דיון עם כזה בן אדם לא יוצא לי לקיים כל יום, בטח שלא בכזאת פתיחות כמו שהוא הציג), ושיתפתח כאן דיון מעניין.
דעתכם?
אגב, סרטון מדהים על הזכייה שלו באליפות העולם ב2010, ככל הנראה הקרב הכי פסיכי שהיה איי פעם... תהנו
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